Do You Believe In Reincarnation?

[Hope Bradford CHT]

“Unless one fully experiences one’s humanity, one will have to experience earth again and again. One will have to repeat the lessons offered here upon the earth. It is possible that one need not have to reincarnate. However, many don’t live up to their full potential because they’re afraid of death. I want to emphasize here that only the body dies. People get too attached to their physicality. However, they have to. One’s consciousness of the physical must be fairly strong in order for the soul’s desire to continue. The more we feel our humanity, the more help we can give and the more joy we can create.” Kuan Yin

When one contemplates death, he or she may not associate it with an amazingly simple concept: that in death one merely continues on with whatever dream they're presently dreaming. Death, then, might be defined as the soul simply not returning to ego-consciousness. As explained in a preponderance of "near death experience" accounts, when the physical body dies, what Kuan Yin (in The Living Word of Kuan Yin: Teachings & Prophecies of the Godd...) has termed as one's "Authentic Self" or soul takes over, naturally transitioning into what has been termed the "after life" experience. This transition has commonly been described by those having near death experiences as entering a tunnel and then seeing a radiating beam of light or glowing spiritual entity. In The Living Word of Kuan Yin, Kuan Yin, Buddhist Goddess of Compassion explains that only the physical body dies—that we are eternal beings. What do you think?

[Gerard Meerstadt]

In the Christian faith we learn that death is the result of deviating from our connection to God. We were originally created to be his perfect expressions in the material universe, living for ever. Death is called 'the last enemy to be conquered', and through the whole bible death clearly relates to physical death, so it is surely not represented as a passage to the next stage.

When man deviated from his creator he heard the statement that he was taken from the soil of the earth and that he would return to that state, exactly as before he came into being. It was the serpent (who acted as a disguised deceiver in the story) who said 'You will surely not die!'.

So where does that leave the old biblical record in this discusion? It is clearly not a popular point of view today, but is it just out of fashion or has it been deserted for good reasons? What do you think? Should we discard it all together? Or does it still play a role in this topic?

Gerard

[Barbara]

Question...as Jesus was said to have told people that they would not die, but live eternally through following him, is he saying the same as the serpent?

Could the serpent be a metaphor for knowledge/enlightenment (as it is in other, earlier religions) rather than evil/devil? It is a fact that most religions rely on keeping knowledge secret (occult) for control.

Barbara

[Gerard Meerstadt]

Jesus is calles 'the second Adam', the one who restores what the first Adam has broken. The serpent invited man to deviate from God and be like him, successfully. History has shown otherwise. Jesus invites man to be friends withy God, follow his lead and be led into the original avenues of eternal life. Therefore his talking about eternal life is not the same as that of the serpent, but exactly the opposite. He points to, and opens, the only way for us to really live forever and not die.

The separation between an esoteric and an exoteric interpretation of life is not something that has come from Jesus. To him the material world and its history are fully part of the whole story. There has been one first perfect man, there has been a flood that wiped out all life on earth because fallen angels had interfered with the affairs on earth by descending and mating with human females, creating the demigods of greek mythology, referred to in the bible as the Nephilim. There will be a future paradise right here on earth, where people wil live without death in this perfect material world.

Gerard

[Barbara]

I have not heard the expression 'the second Adam' is that somewhere in your bible? What do you mean by one perfect man - even in your religion we are made in the likeness of God therefore perfect. And how can you deviate from God if, as, I know, we are part of God (the Universal Consciousness, The Source or whatever name you use for it), can you deviate from yourself?
I have never understood why a God of Love would give freewill then 'punish' humans for taking it.

We do not die, only our physical bodies die, we are already eternal beings, here to learn and expand our consciousness by experience of the denser, physical plane - to experience all the love, hate, joy, sadness, pain etc. that the physical plane can give us.

That said I thought that paradise was, in the Christian religion, a place for thse who were not deemed worthy of a place in heaven (as per Irenaeus).


blessings
Barbara

[Gerard Meerstadt]

Yes Barbara, it is in any bible, in first corinthians 15:45: "The first man Adam became a living soul, the last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (referring to Jesus). The interesting thing is that the bible writers always work from the notion that mankind has not originated through evolution, but through devine creation. The living soul Adam was the first man, in perfect harmony with creation.

Of course free-will allowed him to choose for himself if he would follow the path of his creator or not. He chose not to, so death that came upon him and his offspring as a result is in no way a punishment from God, it is the only logical outcome of the road man has chosen for himself. He is free to do so and to experience the consequences of mis management of his environment and relationships. All the result of our own imperfect actions, no punishment from God. He doesn't punish, on the contrary he warns. He told Adam 'the moment that you think you can decide between good and bad for yourself you will make a grave mistake and create misery for the human family, please don't do that.'

Barbara, I understand very well that 'Christian churches' have created an interpretation of Christianity that a normal person would gladly reject as in-just and unreal, but that does not apply to the scripture itself, apart from these religious dogmas that mainly served to turn people away from the message, rather than help them see it.

Don't you find it fascinating that the exact utterance that you write here 'We do not die' is literally the expression of the serpent in the story of the garden of Eden. Genesis 3:4 reads: "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall surely not die". Later on Jesus identifies him as the father of the lie and the ruler of the world (which must include world religions). When the body dies the soul dies, that's what God said at that occasion. The hope for the dead is the resurrection, not the immortal soul. Those things together surely would make me curious. But then I have no background in any church, so no negative connotations that you might have. I hope you can see the intriguing part of it.

The full message of this story is of course that we had a perfect beginning but lost it and can regain it through the ransom sacrifice of Christ with which he opened a way back to our perfect state with God. That is the essence of the message of Christ.

Enjoy this fascinating quest,
Gerard

[Barbara]

So not the Second Adam but the last - It is interpretation that suggests to you that this is specifically Jesus. Actually the two bibles I have checked on this say that the first Adam became an animate being (or a living being) not a 'living soul'. And then goes on to talk about the 'first man' and 'the second man' (which could well allude to homo-erectus & homo-sapiens or possibly homo-sapiens & homo-superieur). This text is totally in line with what I have come to understand - the difference is (if I understand you correctly) that you are waiting for one last trumpet sound to raise everyone whereas I am aware that everyone has their own 'last trumpet call'.

(This letter to the Corinthians also alludes to reincarnation, the subject of this discussion - 'The seed you sow does not come to life unless it has first died....).

You say you have no background in any church, are you saying you have translated (or studied a variety of translations) & understood this by yourself? (I was not brought up in any church so no particular connotations as you suggest - only studied it at school and as part of my personal spiritual development)

What are your feelings on which books were put in and taken out of the New Testament canon throughout the first 1600 years of Christianity - these (& differing translations) make any interpretation questionable?

blessings
Barbara

[Dreamer]

I like to think of it like this: When we die, it's not a matter of our spirit leaving our body. Rather, our temporary body leaves our eternal spirit. In the "Seth" books, Seth says something like, You are just as dead now as you will ever be, i.e., You are no more alive now than you will be when your physical body dies.

[Hope Bradford CHT]

I would agree and am an avid reader of Seth.

[Gerard Meerstadt]

This is exactly in line with the utterance of the serpent who said 'You will surely not die'. God said about the same affair 'You have come from the soil of the earth and you will return to it. So death would mean the end of the individual experience of life. Of course life goes on, but without you. When you die you are just like when you were before you were born, non existant.

The only hope that Jesus offers is the resurrection of the dead. Most people had no fair chance in life to find the way to eternal life, that's why they will get another chance when the Kingdom of God governs the earth. It's all really simple, as long as we are prepared to resist the calling of the serpent and trust our creator and his son Jesus.

Gerard

[April Gezunterman]

We are the soul so simple we just are.... And trust me when I say bodies are taken either because you have karma or you came out of compassion to help save souls who are still suffering..............

[George Le Poi]

Hi April,
Simple is best, I only just picked up on your comment and you're right. it's breath-takinglkly simple, we are as always, responsible for the complexity and confusion in life.
George

[apachestone]

Interesting concept that ol reincarnate thingy

i am kinda on the fence on this

my very 1st impression was we[ useing the bible for my way of thinking]

God said he knew us befor the foundation of the earth? ok so this tells me we our souls wernt in this bodie just yet.
and if we being of spirt and in the woumb of the God presance were able to send out our thought energy.
to this earth we do a recon sorta thing. and not knowing right or wrong, good or evil looking at the life we may wanta have to have the experance.
as in this life we in the God presance have friends or travled in a click as it were in heaven like here we cant know everyone.
so lets sey i am thinking of coming down here and sey ok sally and bill lets meet at this time and date and share our advebntuers. sally may be my kid and bill may be my wifes uncle. anyway you slice it tis not coincidance we meet and become freinds

as i am waiting to partake of the earth lesson i am able to watch and be apart of my friends lives befor i go its there turn kinda thing
so watching and being right there i take with me the shared experance of that person in time like haveing lived it with them being cought up in the story kinda thing
so did i reincarnate or just brought back pics of my friends experance becuse it truly impacted me and stoered it in my akasha records to rember later ? as it was so real. but i was just bystander not the freind liveing it.

its like wow that looks freaky bro you go 1st .

i am a old soul very old this i know without knowing how i know make sence?